How to Change Your Business Mindset with Deborah Peters

Transcription of Episode

[00:00:00] Ryan Chapman: Hey, this is Ryan Chapman with Fix Your Funnel for another one of our great interviews. And today we're privileged to have Deborah Peters from the NeuroEngineering Institute. Deborah, welcome to the podcast.

Deborah Peters: Ryan. Thank you. I've, I've long been a, a fan of your platform and so I appreciate you reaching out to me.

Ryan Chapman: Oh, well, we appreciate it as well. We appreciate you being here. And what's interesting is usually before we start the interview, I have a little conversation with whoever we're going to be talking with, and sometimes it's more difficult for others to get to what is that, that special topic that we want to cover. But you were right there from the very beginning. And so I think that says a lot about your focus on what it is that you know that you're really good at and you do well. And that came up about you help companies scale but through a different approach than a lot of other companies. Tell us about what it is that you do that's unique in helping [00:01:00] companies to scale.

Deborah Peters: Absolutely my pleasure, because I feel that we are going through a really big change right now in the world of business and that people are realizing how much time they spend working. Why not have it be joyful? Why not have it be fulfilling? So the biggest piece I bring as part of the structure of the business model is the mindset piece. Because when you can get into a place where you're in charge of yourself mentally and emotionally. You can really make any business fly and you become a much better leader.

Ryan Chapman: It's interesting because mindset is one of those topics that's kind of interesting. It's what I call a soft topic in that it's sometimes difficult to measure the impact of it unless you have a real good [00:02:00] before and after set of numbers, so to speak. Right? And so often because it's a soft topic, it's not one that people can really sometimes put their finger on it unless they've gone through the experience, right? They tend to put that off to the side and think, no, I've got to get my marketing assets in place. I've got to get my sales pitch down. I've got to get and, you know, get my numbers right, and they go and get all that stuff straightened out, and then they're kind of surprised to find that their mind is still impacting the way they do business.

Deborah Peters: True. Very, very true. And what's interesting now is that's becoming a more discussed conversation. So I believe that what really opened the doors on that was the concept of EQ or emotional intelligence. And, you know, initially it was all about the IQ, the resume. You know, how do you look on paper? The [00:03:00] education, what's your, where's your degree, where'd you go to school? And then we evolved because we've become more, I would say, experienced in what works and what doesn't work. You know, the contrast of doing business. And so now we have this awareness around EQ. That is a very common conversation in the business world, large corporations, small businesses. What's coming even more to the forefront is this concept of SQ or spiritual quotient. What is your relationship with yourself and, and how do you measure that is really through the quality of yourself talk. You know, I had a client that was in the top leadership position of one of the wirehouses and, how he got there was just really being hard on himself. And I [00:04:00] said to him one day, you know, you can only brow beat yourself into success so long and then you have to flip the switch.

Ryan Chapman: Yeah. So you work with companies and helping their team to start thinking differently. Even though the tasks that they may be performing stay the same, they're coming at it with a different view, a different mindset essentially.

Deborah Peters: Well said, well said, because you know, we're all working a lot of hours and so what's going to make what you're doing, what's going to shift the difference between it being a grind and being something that you get to do. So when we work with leadership on this piece, they become the champion of a positive, expansive, resourceful mindset. And then it becomes a toolbox for them as a leader. Because [00:05:00] essentially, you know what is a leader in the C suite? They're a coach. They are coaching their management, their coaching, their different business units. They're having to look more deeply into the organization through their people. So when we install this as part of the business model at a leadership level, and they start to champion it by becoming it, then that's when you really start to see the organization thrive.

Ryan Chapman: That's an interesting situation because, humans are funny and when you have somebody that's making a change, often those around them try and hold them back to where they were before. How do you, how do you address that reality that people like things to stay the same, even if they're terrible?

Deborah Peters: That's the crab theory, right? You know, one crab starts to escape and the rest, pull them back in. Well, so I have a theory on this, and I call [00:06:00] it Newtonian Physics, where it's really an old school thought process that is now very archaic and it's, it's losing its traction in the way that companies evolve and grow and expand. And I feel that there's certainly still a good percentage of companies and leaders that are still functioning in that realm of change is hard. It's all about competing. It's a limited pie. We have to struggle to, to get to the next level. And what we really want to do is just survive. And just that old narrative, there's still certainly organizations and people that function in that narrative. But there's also a whole new narrative and the new narrative is around thriving. It's around creative thinking instead of competitive thinking. It's based in, [00:07:00] okay, you see this change as being a threat? Well, what if it's just about a pattern? What if the way you've been doing things, it's just a habit like driving home the same route every night?

Ryan Chapman: Well, so what I see more frequently than maybe that competitive thing, 'cause I agree with you. I think a lot of people have moved past that competitive thing and they kind of think well, the pie can get as big as it can get. It can get bigger. What I see more of is the doubt that somebody can can evolve.

Deborah Peters: Unpack that for me.

Ryan Chapman: So let's take a situation where somebody has attempted to make changes as a leader over and over again unsuccessfully. And then now they're trying something new. They, they made the choice to have you come in, right? Now you're giving them a different set of tools than maybe the ones that I've used in the past that then lead to a successful transformation. And maybe it's the marketplace cause they heard the [00:08:00] same story over and over again. Maybe it's some members of the team cause they've heard the same story over and over again. They're a little bit skeptical that the leadership is actually making the change that they've been wanting to make but haven't been able to make up until this point. And so you know, they're, they're really kind of a drag on that person. How, how do you help the person overcome that kind of scenario? 'Cause I see that more frequently than even the, the pie is too small thing.

Deborah Peters: Transparency is always the key. So you know, let's take a scenario like you've laid out where a leader has tried to make changes several times and nothing has stuck, and now people are a little jaded, right? So just being really transparent and saying, look, you know, well, let me back up for a second so I can give you that answer. So Typically the changes they've been trying to make are not at the root of the issue their to your point, let's you know, and I see this all the time when a company is [00:09:00] struggling along, oh we have to restrategize because our strategy's off. And then they'll spend a bunch of money and time restrategizing something that doesn't need a new strategy. It needs a new thought process. So, or they'll throw a bunch more money at their website or their marketing and branding, or they'll rebrand and they're trying to put a bandaid. They're trying to fix something that's symptomatic, you know? It's like once you have a cold, you have a cold, you know, just let it run its course. And so taking a bunch of drugs to keep pushing yourself. And this is the point, is that when they are willing to be transparent and say, listen, we have tried all of these things, and I led that charge because I thought based on old school thinking, if we fix the symptoms, the problem would go away. But what I've learned as part of my growth. Is that it really has to change from the mindset perspective and just being [00:10:00] honest with... Yes always, because that's what will bring your team around you and they'll be, they'll be like patting in the leader on the back going, wow, great breakthrough. We're with you.

Ryan Chapman: So you're, you're actually helping the leaders to figure out what is that core issue. That's the bulk of your work then.

Deborah Peters: That's it.

Ryan Chapman: That's interesting. In my book, The Messaging Connection, actually, have you had a chance to, I'm know I'm putting you on the spot with this. Have you ever had a chance to see it or read it?

Deborah Peters: I have not, I would love to.

Ryan Chapman: Sure we will get you audio because that's the easiest one for people to consume, but I just had a call earlier today with a gentleman who very intelligent on the work he's doing. He showed me a bunch of campaigns that they're doing for their, their niche, that he actually helps a bunch of people in particular industry. And you know, I was very impressed by the campaign, the cadence, the general messaging. But one of the things he had picked up from my book, 'cause it's interesting is, in my book you'd think, cause it's about, you know, ultimately you guessed about [00:11:00] texting at some point, right? But my first four chapters don't even mention texting. They're on those foundational core issues, like how do you see contacts, you know, how do you see people that you do business with? Because I think a lot of people fall into this habit of seeing them as money bags insteade of people. You know, they're just trying to extract the next buck instead of actually helping that person progress in their journey in this life. And so changing the way that you see things is the first thing. And then it's like start worrying about having conversations instead of telling people what to do. And so while structurally they have a lot of the pieces in place, the messaging and tone was off because they didn't have those core concepts. It was part of, you know, their mindset of how they viewed the world. And so we just talked about that for a little bit, which he had seen in the book. But he wasn't sure, how do I translate that into action now? So he had already done the work internally to figure out, Oh, that needs to [00:12:00] change. I need to see the world a little bit differently than I've been seeing it. But as soon as, you know, he had, he was already on board with that, so I, all I had to do is just give him a little nudge in terms of translation of that mindset into application and the whole world changed for him. He could immediately see how he's going to do much better for his customers because he was seeing the whole thing differently than he was before. It was kind of fun to see the light bulbs go on. I imagine that's kind of a small version of what the work is you do with your clients.

Deborah Peters: Well it's, you know, it's the baseline for the entire business model. You can't build a company unless you have that in place, because it's like that old saying of building castles on sand. And you just will open yourself up for all of these choke points down the road.

Ryan Chapman: Here's what I find interesting is people get much more excited about a bright, shiny object. You know, some mechanism that they can add into the business. And I, I [00:13:00] must confess, we kind of fall into that category for some people. You know, they look and say, Oh, texting that will finally solve my problem. Which is why we spent so much time talking about the foundational core issues. Right? But what's the effective method to help people to recognize the value that comes out of focusing on mindset as opposed to another mechanism that they can add? Like you're saying, website, redo the marketing. Okay, let's make a new asset. How do you help people to see the need if they haven't already come to that conclusion on their own?

Deborah Peters: You know, I have to say that I don't ever have an issue with that. They come to us because they know that they need to shift something other than all the symptomatic stuff.

Ryan Chapman: Okay, so you're, you already positioned it in such a way that people are coming to predisposed to making a change.

Deborah Peters: Yeah, because it's become, it's become the newest, most impactful understanding of what it [00:14:00] takes to grow a business.

Ryan Chapman: Interesting. So they've already hit the wall so many times they realize there's gotta be a different way, and maybe I should start looking at the core.

Deborah Peters: Well, that's one thing. The other thing is that the conversation now is very upfront about mindset. And every organization that we deal with that we've talked to that reach out to us, that we market to, like all aspects of it. There seems to be some kind of an awareness because it is the new narrative in the business world.

Ryan Chapman: So you, you talked about a case study a little bit, or before we started recording, I'd like you to talk, bring up and go through that. But one of the things that you mentioned in that is that the team that he's built over the years, once he made this shift, the focus first on mindset, it's extremely loyal and they, they want to work with him wherever he goes. Is, is part of that, cause you were talking a little bit earlier about how once you get the C team, [00:15:00] you know, the CEO and all those guys and gals focused on an understanding, you know, the self relationship, their mindset, becoming more self aware that. Is that giving them the tools to be able to introduce that to the rest of their team? And is that what it is that creates, that... Is by introducing that to them and helping them have that, that evolution personally, is that kind of what creates that loyalty?

Deborah Peters: Absolutely. And you know, so on that case study, yeah. So this is a client that I started working with in the mortgage industry, and I started working with them, late nineties. And, the CEO has launched several, wholesale lenders, lending institutions, banks over the last, 20 years or so. And, every time he launches a new one, he has me come in and, and facilitate the launch and help them build out the [00:16:00] business model. And we do the value prop. And, and then we get into the strategy and what I've observed of him over the years is how he has really taken seriously the necessity of growing himself on an EQ level, on an SQ level and, and really becoming, I guess for lack of better term, maybe a more mindful and heart centered in terms of how he approaches business, because in the mortgage industry, it's very transactional, right? But there's, there's relationships, there's human beings behind those transactions in front of those transactions.

Ryan Chapman: I think it would be helpful, you know, for people to really grasp, 'cause we talked about this a little before we started recording how some of these terms, people are familiar with them, but they may not really know how to translate them, right? So like mindfulness, how has that, how has that [00:17:00] mindfulness or the improved mindfulness on the part of, of this friend and client of yours expressed in the business? How do we see the symptoms of that new change, right? As opposed to before we see the disease and we see the symptoms of the disease where you know, everything's very transactional. We're not really caring about people. We just want to get the money. What, what is that shift? How do, how do you recognize that shift? If you were to come across that company, how would you know that that company is in the right place in terms of mindfulness and self relationship?

Deborah Peters: How they handled their, their clients.

Ryan Chapman: What do you mean by that?

Deborah Peters: They handle their clients with respect and their clients are seen as human beings. The transaction is the transaction, but when they're looking at. You know, what is, what does the client need is and what is it that they can do? It's an engagement with that client to make sure that they can help them through the process [00:18:00] rather than just, okay, this is another file I got to get off my desk so I can go home at the end of the day. The other piece is the longevity of the people around him that with this next new launch, the management level and some of the people that have been his sales staff and his marketing team, you know, they've been with him since day one. They would go anywhere with him. It's powerful.

Ryan Chapman: So how did, how does that get manifest in, like you're saying, the, the value proposition.

Deborah Peters: So the value proposition is the value that we as a company propose to our client, right? Whatever your company is. So inherent in that value proposition, not just the words, so you can read a lot of value propositions on company websites that are just a bunch of words, but...

Ryan Chapman: Empty words.

Deborah Peters: Empty words. But I have a very [00:19:00] unique approach to creating a VP of value proposition, and it's based in a values exercise where I, I sit them down in a room and I take them through a process of discovering what the true values are. Now, you know, values are, most people don't even know this, cause I didn't know this before I started coaching and I went through my training. But values drive us at an unconscious level. They're deep and most people aren't aware of their values and most people are chasing their goals. And trying to do that level of, of change in their lives, but truly, truly, when you want to change something about your results, it has to start by taking a look at your values.

Ryan Chapman: Yeah. Cause if those values are out of alignment with that goal you'll find yourself constantly missing the mark, won't you?

Deborah Peters: That's right. That's right. So that's the first step. And those [00:20:00] values get flushed out in order to build that value proposition. So...

Ryan Chapman: So it's much more than just a marketing thing. It's establishing the heart of the company. This is what you will live, breathe, and die by.

Deborah Peters: Exactly.

Ryan Chapman: Yeah. So that, I mean, that's not something you, you hand down as like a dictate from the leader to everybody else? That's something everybody has to buy into a hundred percent to be part of the organization. You end up hiring and firing by these values. How do you, how do you establish, you know, Hey, this person wants to be on the team. Are they actually a fit?

Deborah Peters: Wow. That's a whole, proprietary interview process.

Ryan Chapman: Okay. So you probably can't share anything you don't feel comfortable sharing, but then, you know, that's very interesting. These are just questions that come up as I think about what you've been bringing up and talking about. Where would somebody get started if they're looking at their organization, they're like, we're out of [00:21:00] alignment. I mean, just hearing Deborah talk about this, I can tell, you know, this is what the person may be saying. We need some change in our organization and I know it's going to start with me as the owner of the business. Where do I even start?

Deborah Peters: Meaning...?

Ryan Chapman: I want to make, I want to start making this shift. Maybe I need somebody's help like yours to come into the organization and really do the full treatment. Where do I start down that path? What are some first exercises that might help me to recognize how much help I really need?

Deborah Peters: Well, the thing is, is you may not realize how much help you really need. You know, it may just be a choke point where you're hitting a wall on something that you can't seem to resolve and it needs to be a different thinking system that is used to approach that choke point. And with that openness, I would say, you know, the first step is really to be open to change. You have to be [00:22:00] coachable. If you're not coachable, it's not really gonna make any difference. And I've, I've had some clients, I've fired some clients because they weren't coachable.

Ryan Chapman: So is there a way a person can, can know that they're coachable?

Deborah Peters: Yes.

Ryan Chapman: I think that everybody wants to say they are, but you know that when the rubber hits the road...

Deborah Peters: Yeah. Well, the best way to find out if you're coachable is when you're in a coaching process. You're not actually trying to control the process.

Ryan Chapman: Interesting. You're, you're actually being moldable as opposed to saying, no, no, I know, I know, I know.

Deborah Peters: Yeah. This is how we do it. It's like, okay, I understand this is how you do it, but how's that working out for you?

Ryan Chapman: Cause you're essentially talking about humility, right? Or meekness, a willingness to be led and, and to follow. Recognizing you don't know everything, but you want to improve.

[00:23:00] Deborah Peters: Yeah. I mean, we, none of us know, none of us, we just don't know what we don't know. And that's where we all are as human beings. And so as we, I mean, even this podcast together, we're both learning. So I approach everything from that realm. And so the question always is, I have an assessment that I send out. And the very first question, the assessment is, you know, do you have a dedicated, disciplined personal growth strategy in your life? Do you, do you cultivate yourself every day? And I typically get a no, or usually, which tells me they don't because it should be a resounding yes.

Ryan Chapman: Yeah. Otherwise, it's really not all that.

Deborah Peters: No. It's like, what did Yoda say? There is no try. [00:24:00]

Ryan Chapman: Interesting. So that's kind of a starting point then, isn't it? Are you committed to improving yourself? Because you know, there is that state that people fall into of saying, Hey, this is just how I am, deal with it.

Deborah Peters: I was watching a Robert Kiyosaki interview about how he's hypothesizing that in America we love victims. And you know, the teachings that I bring into my work is the antithesis of that. It's, I want to show you how to master yourself, master your life, master your business, master your relationship. Because essentially when you're running a business, when you're leading a team, it really is all about relationships and what's the number one relationship we have is the relationship we have with ourselves.

Ryan Chapman: You talked about the conversation we have in [00:25:00] our head when nobody else is listening, right?

Deborah Peters: That's it.

Ryan Chapman: You actually work with your clients on becoming aware of how they're speaking to themselves and then prescribing a new conversation to have.

Deborah Peters: Well, yes, and some tools to cultivate that conversation. Because that's going to be the hardest thing to change. We are creatures of habits. We, from a neuroscience perspective, everything is an algorithm in our mind. So we start thinking a thought, we attach an, a significant emotional event to that thought, and it becomes ingrained in our body, mind, you know, our neurology, our system, whatever you want to call it. And then we, all we have to do is entertain it a few times, a few repetitions, and now it [00:26:00] becomes a pattern in and of itself. So changing that self-talk is always going to be the steep climb. But if you're willing to stick it out and discipline yourself, then you will eventually hit a tipping point where the new thought becomes dominant.

Ryan Chapman: Yeah. I think that's the thing I'd like for people to take away from this conversation along with whatever else they've picked up along the way. But it's just that concept that nobody is a fixed entity. The only cage that is around you is the one of your own building. And if, if you can understand what Deborah has been getting it here. It is the inherent fundamental concept below, you know, the underlies all of it is that we are agents capable of change. And that that change, while it may require effort, and if it didn't require for it wouldn't be [00:27:00] worth it and it wouldn't stick, right? So that's the nice part about the fact that you're, so the fact that your psyche has a tendency to stick, but is also moldable, you know, you could, that you can change it. Those two characteristics together are what make it so fantastic. Because as you take ownership of that and you actually intentionally mold your mind, your psyche, your mindset, the way that you view the world to be a more productive mindset. That can stick too.

Deborah Peters: Absolutely. Why not?

Ryan Chapman: And so that's the beautiful part. And if you've adjusted your psyche not only to be, Hey, I can change, I can improve, but I can constantly improve, I can constantly learn. That's where I think you really start to see that momentum. I think out of the case study you were talking about, you talked about what is it, a 20 year span? How many years have you been with him? Over that 20 years because of the, the [00:28:00] mindset adopted by the individual at the beginning, they've been on a constant journey of improvement, not just they got up to this different level. Then they just stayed there.

Deborah Peters: That's right.

Ryan Chapman: And that's, I think ultimately what we're shooting for, there's there is, there's spiritual writing that says that when you say you have enough, in other words, I'm good enough right now, I'm not going to worry about getting better, that you, not only do you not get any more, but you lose that what you have, you actually atrophied back because the nature of this world is one of atrophy. If you don't move, it moves you. But if you do receive, then you continue to grow line upon line, precept upon precept here a little, there little. And ultimately, if that's your mindset that you can, you can change and you can improve for the better. And it will be a patient process as well. There can be some huge, I think there's quantum changes that happen once you make that shift, which you probably see all the time. I imagine your work. This incremental improvement that can continue after that.

[00:29:00]Deborah Peters: Absolutely. And you know, it's interesting is, we are hardwired to consistently and constantly seek more and more. So when you don't let yourself grow, then you actually start developing all this resistance, energy and the resistance, your own resistance to your own growth is, you know, to your point, you're not a fixed entity, but you're actually holding yourself back. And this is when all sorts of problems start to reveal themselves. So you know, know thyself, go within. And with that you can, through repetition of thought, anywhere between three, seven and 21 repetitions, and you have installed a new pattern. So this is where the erroneous concept of 21 days to install a new habit. It's really not days. It's repetitions, and it could be anywhere between three seven [00:30:00] and 21 we can't really say it's going to be X number of repetitions because it depends on some variables. You know, how fixed are you and your attitude, how stock are you and committed to holding on to your beliefs.

Ryan Chapman: Like, do I even believe this can work for me?

Deborah Peters: Well, yeah. I mean ...

Ryan Chapman: We see that on the marketing side all the time. That more what prevents a person from taking action has more to do with their belief about themselves than it does about you.

Deborah Peters: Yeah. And I would say if I were to add something to that, it would be desire. Like, do you want this to work?

Ryan Chapman: Yeah. Or are you doing it because of external pressure? Yeah. This has been a fascinating discussion.

Deborah Peters: I know, I bet you didn't think we'd go here, right?

Ryan Chapman: Well, here's the problem for a lot of people is they don't understand [00:31:00] how critical the way they see the world is and how it's impacting them right now. And because it is a soft topic that doesn't have hard things fixed to it, you know, they're not attached. It's very ethereal in terms of, you know, it's, it's a characteristic that makes a difference, but you don't realize how big it is, you feel it. People tend to devaluate that in not give it the time and attention that it requires and needs. Although to your point, it's not a huge commitment to shift it. That's what I think is so exciting. Yeah. Literally huge doors swing on tiny hinges and these little changes happen at the instant that you get fixated in your heart, that you want to change something. And if you've overcome the false belief that you can't do it, you get that place where you go, you know, it is possible and it's possible for me. Those two little things can allow you to make some major shifts [00:32:00] internally, which manifests externally. I've heard people say that the tidiness of your room is a reflection of the tidiness of your mind, right?

Deborah Peters:Yeah. My grandmother used to say, before you eat in a restaurant, check out the bathroom if it's clean. And so is the kitchen. You know, it's metaphorically what you're saying. It's true.

Ryan Chapman: And so, you know, give yourself a chance to improve. I believe everybody listening to this podcast episode is capable of immense success, much more even than they may believe at this point. But a lot of it hinges on your ability to adopt an appropriate mindset. One that allows you to grow, to not be crushed by defeats. Cause defeats are part of life's learning experiences, right? These, these things people call failures. And if you can see yourself a little bit differently, if you can respect yourself and start to talk to yourself differently, like Deborah's been talking about, you give yourself a chance to start manifesting the [00:33:00] true potential that lies within you. Deborah, I think some people are going to need your help. What would be the best way for them to reach you?

Deborah Peters: You could go to my Instagram, it's NEI4change. So NEI is like the acronym for my company, NeuroEngineering Institute. So NEI the number four, and then change, you can also go to my website, which is NEImind.com. And definitely reach out to me.

Ryan Chapman: What would be some closing thoughts that you would have as we wrap up?

Deborah Peters: So number one, is this the reason you're in business, you may think it's about money, you may think it's about, you know, this is how you're going to pay your mortgage, et cetera, and put your children through college. But the real reason you're in business is because it creates a portal, a platform for you to bring the [00:34:00] greatest expression of your gifts and your talents to the table and continually expand and evolve those gifts and talents to their greatest potential in this lifetime. That is why you're in business. And if you can get up every day, and before you turn on your phone, before you talk to anybody, if you have to get up half hour before your family, do it, sit down, meditate for 15 minutes, just quiet your mind, focus on your breathing, if a thought comes up, which it will just, you know, just swipe it aside and just bring yourself into your heart and just sit there for 15 minutes. Then write down your intentions for the day, and then you can get up and you can get after it. Because what happens is instead of getting on your phone first thing and looking at all the problems in the [00:35:00] world, you go inside of you and you connect to you, your higher self, your creator, whatever it is for you, and then the universe, the world, the energy of the day, it conforms to you and your alignment. And you actually can, can have great mastery over your experiences that day. It's not going to say challenges aren't going to come at you. Welcome and embrace challenges because inside, every challenge, inside every so-called failure is a blessing of growth and abundance. So just, just tweak it a little bit. I'm not asking you to do. You know, a big, like month trek across the mountains. I'm just saying, just do little tweaks each day until you get a handle on yourself. And then mentally and emotionally you'll become a powerhouse. And people will, will see that [00:36:00] in you. And you know, we all want to be around people that are, that are sovereign, that are strong in themselves and that are leaders.

Ryan Chapman: Very good. Love it. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking time out of your day to be with us today.

Deborah Peters: Oh, my pleasure.