Secrets of Automation Success with Tina Potts

[00:00:00] Ryan Chapman: Hey, this is Ryan Chapman with the Fix Your Funnel interview series, and I'm really, really excited to have Tina Potts. You guys may not know this or maybe you picked up on it, but we have a little chat before we start recording. Our pre chat, before we started recording, Tina got me really excited because you're going to be covering some topics that, nobody's really covered on this podcast that I feel are critical, like really critical. So welcome to the podcast.

Tina Potts: Thank you so much, Ryan, for having me. I'm excited to be here with someone who loves automation as much as I do.

Ryan Chapman: It is fun. I love it. Let's start by exploring how you got here. I think that that's always instructive, you know? How did you get to the point where you were doing marketing automation? I always find that story fascinating.

Tina Potts: For me, life happened. My father passed away when I was 22, and I worked as a controller and you know. The numbers, I took care of the systems to connect different locations together. So that was always my job, the [00:01:00] technology. And then my mother became sick and she had two strokes, and then she had a heart attack. And for me, it's people before money. My mom and her health was way more important than any job or any business that I had. So I stayed home and took care of her cause she was all I had left. And eventually when savings started to dwindle, I had to figure out, okay, what are you going to do now? And it wasn't going back to a job. People, the owners of the company actually started handing me to their friends to work out the things that I had worked out for them. So I began consulting from home. And then, you know, all of the iterations came down to this.

Ryan Chapman: That's very cool. I mean, it's, it's a sad story, but also the way that you, you know, face the challenges and overcame is really cool. I think [00:02:00] that that it sounds like your parents raised you to, to not really see any obstacles.

Tina Potts: Exactly right. That is, that is very fair to say. I think my philosophy would be no walls. There's never a barrier that we can't overcome and no matter how dire a situation is, like I'm that person that's going to be all in with you. I'm like, okay, nope. We can figure it out and we just got to start unwinding some things and we'll, we'll, we'll figure it out. That's just who I am.

Ryan Chapman: I didn't know about your controller back on that accounting, you know, that requires a certain mentality to be able to think through the numbers of a situation and...

Tina Potts: That's the most important part, right? Knowing your numbers.

Ryan Chapman: And so it, I think that's an extremely valuable skill set that you bring to the marketing automation playbook. You know what I mean? In the sense that not only are you aware of the numbers, but [00:03:00] just the way that you have to think in terms of, you know, how do we bring all these different pieces of information together? That's really critical because honestly, learning, marketing, automation, getting in there and you know, making a campaign and stuff like that doesn't require a whole lot of expertise if you're not going to do right, you know, if you can just do it however, but to do it in a way that really pays attention. So one of the things that I'm always talking about is data integrity. Which you know, and funny story is when I first started working, I went to work for a CPA. And so they just sat me down in front of a computer with the tax software and started handing me, you know, PMLs and stuff like that, said, okay, here it is go figure it out. As I started doing taxes and then, you know, eventually it started teaching me some of the stuff behind it, but, you know, when you're in that situation, you learn about data integrity and it's really important that you maintain that integrity in order for [00:04:00] you to be able to process information properly. So someone with your background has that as that understanding of, okay, we got to make sure that we keep this data clean and usable as we put it in, and as we move it around so that we don't create unintended consequences as we start automating a process.

Tina Potts: Absolutely. And you know, to go even deeper, like I, yes, when I talk about knowing your numbers, the profit and loss and all of that kind of thing. Absolutely. But let's talk about the numbers before you get to the dollars. How much traffic in the conversions where your funnel may not be, where you could be losing people in your funnel. When you know your numbers, it becomes a systematic approach to growing. So I almost can reverse engineer, someone's success. You tell me you want to hit six figures this year, or eight [00:05:00] figures, whatever the number is, and then we can literally reverse based off of your historical data what it is that you need to do, but then we're going to tweak it and make it better, but at least we start from the history.

Ryan Chapman: I love that. I love that. So who do you work with primarily?

Tina Potts: Primarily I work with thought leaders. It could be a doctor, who has a thought leader component. It could be a coach or a consultant, or even a traditional business who now wants to have a global audience and a global customer base. That's typically who I'm working with.

Ryan Chapman: It was really interesting because that type of customer does best if they don't ever get involved with the software?

Tina Potts: Well, you and I know that, but you know, a lot of times I think we're teaching people that maybe we're trying to make it too easy, or we're trying in our marketing, we're saying it's too [00:06:00] easy, and instead I like your approach, you know, having data integrity as well as, you know, being able to really have analytics and knowing your numbers is crucial, if you are serious about growing your business. It's one thing if you want to maintain and control everything, it's a whole nother thing if you really want to have a systematic approach, just like you would if you had a traditional mom and pop.

Ryan Chapman: Yeah, I think that the best ... I would, I would just go out on a limb and guests that your best customers are those that know their domain and they understand what you can do and bring to the table and they'd let you do that, but they inform like, here's outcomes that we want to create. And then they, they leave you to do your magic, so to speak, and start orchestrating the things that needed to happen so that that magic can be made real.

Tina Potts: Yeah. My customer tells me, okay, I'm having a [00:07:00] problem here in fulfillment, or I'm having a problem in lead acquisition, or can you just make it so that I can use my human assets, the people that I employ, in more sales generating activities instead of day to day functions when, yeah. So, so they are really getting into being mindful in the way that they grow and you've been around for a while, so just like I have, so you know that when your cells and you know your SGNA, cause you've worked for an accountant, when when that gets out of whack, your profitability is out of whack. So if you keep and maintain your SGNA to maybe 20% or less. Of your overall profit structure. It just changes and the fluidity of the company, the profitability of the company and how fast the company can grow. And I can't believe we're talking so [00:08:00] much like in accounting things right now. This is pretty funny. It's funny.

Ryan Chapman: It's really important for people to understand what all does it take to actually grow a profitable business? And it really comes down to who do you have on the team and are they in the right seats on the bus? There is a, there's a huge component to marketing automation that needs to be informed by business sense. You know, I always say it's the psych...you know, if you want to be a great business owner, you gotta be, you gotta have some understanding of psychology is we're always dealing with humans that have good math. So you gotta, you have to know how do I structure the business? So the, that will be the most profitable while doing the most good and accepting the most value from the market that they, you know, as they see that good that you're doing. And, you know, then are we systematic? You know, from my perspective, when it comes to marketing automation, what I'm looking at is, and I'm sure you've seen this, [00:09:00] cycles in the market and in a business are reflection of human nature expressing itself in the business. What people will sometimes do say, okay, I want to try and mitigate the impact of human nature. So I'm gonna put these systems in place, these processes. I'm going to do some automation. But where I see people go too far is when they automate the humanity out of the business.

Tina Potts: Absolutely.

Ryan Chapman: What we really want to do is we want to mitigate the impact of human nature while augmenting the humanity of the business. How do we interact with customers and prospects? You know, how do, how do we make sure that we're utilizing human assets, as you put it, in the right place so that it's really living up to its full potential and taking you out of that place where they're gonna be prone to mess up because of human nature.

Tina Potts: And I think that's what happens when people are using templates that they get. Like let's say they sign up for something and someone [00:10:00] has given them a funnel template. Most of the time that has taken your personality out of the equation and what happens is people will notice a drastic decline and then think marketing automation doesn't work, but it is exactly what you said. They took their personality out of it. They took the thing that made them work and they didn't make sure that was included in the automation. That is so crucial.

Ryan Chapman: That's why it's like, it kind of makes me sad sometimes when people are like, Hey, have you got a funnel for that? I go, you look at, I can give you the mechanics of it, but the message has to be yours, right?

Tina Potts: Yes. The message has to be yours.

Ryan Chapman: And you know, mechanics will not solve a messaging problem. And that's been a really important part. And I can tell that you really get that. So you must help your clients to make sure that their message comes through. And that your mechanics just facilitate that instead of override it.

[00:11:00] Tina Potts: Yeah. My theme is message, method. You know what I mean? Cause if you understand your message first, you know the means that you're going to deliver it and the message, the mechanics of it, then you can really have the money and it makes the money easy. Makes it almost like it just has to happen, because that's the other three. Right?

Ryan Chapman: That's the interesting part is we can talk, well we'll talk about today. We can talk a little bit about concepts. We're going to talk about a couple of really cool things I'm excited to talk about. And we can talk about them generally. But really you have to work with somebody one-on-one to pull the message out of them and get that into the method. And so we'll talk about some methods, some mechanisms that you're using, and then there'll be some good stuff there, but I don't want people to lose sight of the fact that that stuff, those mechanisms, those methods that you're going to talk about are really critical. And you've got to have those in place, but [00:12:00] if they're not fleshed out with your message and your voice, they're going to fall flat. So that's, that's really where people would benefit from working with you, that if they're, you know, your type of client or customer, definitely help them flesh the message out around that methodology.

Tina Potts: Yes. Cause I'm a strategist. You know, a lot of times people get different terms mixed up. The difference between a coach versus a consultant versus a strategist, you know, all of those things, sometimes people use them interchangeably when they really aren't. You know, sometimes coaching is, most people. When, when they're thinking of coaching, that's really about a mindset. Is this a mindset issue? You know, I'm going to help you be a little bit more resourceful. As a strategist, as I was saying in the beginning, I have an all in approach. I have a no wall. If [00:13:00] you're telling me that this is what you want, then I'm going to look for the best, most efficient way to deliver that, but leave your core message intact. And most people, you have to be really careful with who you have at the table, like you said, having the right people in the right seats at the bus, if you have a strategist that's helping you with your automation, then your VA or your virtual assistant, if you don't have a lot of people on your teams, is getting great direction on how to manage what they've created. But a lot of times people are using VA's in the wrong spot. If that makes sense.

Ryan Chapman: Yeah, no, totally does. And look, here's how you can tell what outcomes are you getting?

Tina Potts: What outcomes are you getting? That's exactly right.

Ryan Chapman: But if your outcomes are like fantastic, then okay, you probably have everybody in the right place in the bus. If your outcomes are not what you're hoping for, then [00:14:00] it's time to say, okay, who am I letting drive our strategy? You know, who am I letting train are our team members? You know, those things probably need adjustment.

Tina Potts: Yeah. The last thing I just wanted to say, you know, especially as we're navigating through different times, what you want to make sure is that when you are converting from a, maybe a traditional business or to an online business, when you're adding more online into your structure, don't shortchange that part exactly like you wouldn't if it was a traditional business. A lot of times we shortchange, okay, I'm gonna get this template and I'm going to plug it in. This is a chance for you to really dig in and make it an extension of you. Yeah. That's really what you want. So I just wanted to throw that in.

Ryan Chapman: To that point, if you do it that time is the most leveraged activity you'll ever [00:15:00] do. In any investment you make into thinking through and expressing your message in a way that, like you're saying, you haven't shortchanged it. That is going to pay you for years, if not decades, just depending on your, your material and your content, but for, for sure, for years. And you know, if you think about an activity that you do once and then pays you over and over and over again. Those are activities that you want to be putting in place as much as possible. You know? What it's going to do for you, and especially if you have a brick and mortar business and you're, you're transitioning to include this influential thought leader, info marketer, coaching business, that that extension frequently becomes many multiples in terms of value compared to the brick and mortar you started with and you don't get rid of the brick and mortar because that's almost like your laboratory, [00:16:00] right?

Tina Potts: Yep. Yep. That's exactly right. It's, it's funny because when I first started doing this, like I was doing things like hair salons and, and this, that, or the other, right? And when you take, and they're making more money from online sales than the people who are actually walking in getting their hair done, they're sitting there baffled because they never thought it could be possible, even though they trusted you to build it. That's the crazy part.

Ryan Chapman: It's really exciting. I mean, that was our first, my first business that actually was really successful. I mean, I had, you know, stay above the expense line businesses before that, but the first one that was really successful was an information marketing business where we were teaching a concept to people. The leverage is super exciting when you get that in place.

Tina Potts: Wow. Hey Ryan, I want to ask you a question. I often say that one hour [00:17:00] of automation for me, I can almost say is more than a thousand hours of man hours sometimes. Could you give a number like that? Would you give a number like that?

Ryan Chapman: Well, I don't even know if you could quantify it to be honest. The question for me then becomes, are those hours that they could contribute to the bottom line? That's the difference between a good automation expert and your average automation expert because anybody can automate anything really. You know what I mean? The question is, does the automation contribute to the bottom line? If you put an automation in place that contributes to the bottom line, that's where the real leverage comes in because now that hour is worth something that you turned into a thousand you know what I mean? And that's the real difference between having a strategist and having a VA do automate, you know, setting up automations is the thought process to [00:18:00] how does this impact the bottom line? And you know, because this is where I see people get really frustrated with marketing automation. They go, they get excited about the dream, the prospect of what marketing automation can do for them. They go hire a company, the company automates everything without discretion on what actually impacts the bottom line for the company that could be automated. They get no results that they can measure that are significant, but they put a huge investment of time, money, and effort, and then they're like, well, this is all garbage. But the truth is, if you don't actually put the marketing automation on the thing that actually is preventing the company from growing, then you have just wasted time, money, and effort. But it's not because the marketing automation, the tool is a problem. It's your use the tool, right?

Tina Potts: Yup. Yup. Absolutely. That's where having great analytics really does come in. Because just just like when you were, you know, in traditional businesses when we just used to teach, Hey, [00:19:00] when someone calls on the phone, make sure you ask, you know, where did you find out about us? Like that was one of the small things that you would teach people to do when they answer the phone to know which of your marketing or advertising was working. A lot of times if you just get, as you called it, an average automation person to do it. If they're not asking all of those questions about what makes you shine before they start, they could actually do more damage than good because they've now taken away the power that you have because they didn't amplify that part.

Ryan Chapman: That's one of the signs for sure, is do they ask enough questions that they really understand your business and how the model works and where the potential weak points are that could be helped. You know what I mean?

Tina Potts: Yes.

Ryan Chapman: It's huge. One of the things I know that you do that I got excited about that you told us before we started was filling events. [00:20:00] So anybody that, sells one to many, which you know, frankly, is one of the better ways to sell. Puts on events and they want to get people to the event, whether that's a online event or a physical event. Obviously physical being somewhat curtailed at this time, but regardless, they want to fill events. And you said that you've got some pretty cool ways that you're using the tool sets available to you to fill events to capacity without giving away stuff.

Tina Potts: Absolutely.

Ryan Chapman: Tell us about that.

Tina Potts: Yeah. So my favorite way is using a lot of different forms of automation, like what your company does. So for instance, I don't just use email automation, I use text message, I use voicemail drops, and like all three of those combined email, text message and voicemail drops is the way that I can fill events over capacity. You know, we're all walking around with earphones in our ears. Like half [00:21:00] the population right now, I think is walking around with earphones in your ears. The best personal way is having a voice in those earbuds. And when you send a voicemail drop, it just connects on a personal level. That's one of the things you and I was talking about, making sure that personal touch stays inside of the automation so it works.

Ryan Chapman: Okay. And I get from our conversation, and you've done quite a bit with direct voicemails, but what. And obviously Fix Your Funnel does that, but the question always, I think that people come to when they're, they're saying, okay, I want to include voicemail drop. Tina talked about it sounds interesting. It's got that personal element. You got the, the tone, the inflections, you know, the emotion. How do you craft your voicemail drop?

Tina Potts: Oh, sure. So a lot of times I still have the main message in email and my voicemail [00:22:00] is really connecting to them as a human and then saying, Hey, go look at that email that I sent. I want to have a heart to heart conversation. Hey, this is Tina. Just wanted to make sure that you heard about the event that I'm having in Dallas. You know, and then I say something like, the one thing that I know most people want to learn is this, but if you want to find out about everything, I sent you an email, please look at it. And if you have any questions, just hit reply on that email and I'll be happy to answer them. So you see, like I take them from one channel back to the other.

Ryan Chapman: I love, and I love that example you gave. I think everybody listening can go, Oh, I see what she means.

Tina Potts: Yep. And the same thing in text messaging right? When people tried to use text messaging in their sales funnel, the worst thing you can do is just starting, buy my stuff, buy my [00:23:00] stuff, buy my stuff in text messaging, it becomes intrusive and they will block you fast. The best thing is, Hey, Hey, I just wanted to let you know, I sent you an email. How are you doing today? Like those kinds of things you gotta... that's where you gotta bring your humanness to the table and not just buy my stuff.

Ryan Chapman: Yeah. This is always been a frustration for us because, you know, as we were talking about, we've been doing texting for nine plus years now, and so the natural tendency of everybody, when they first get access to texting. If they somehow have phone numbers, which is usually the next big hurdle they have, cause they've just been collecting email addresses their whole life. But if they do have phone numbers, they think, Oh, I'm going to set up a big broadcast and tell people if they buy before this time, then they'll get this percentage off here, some combination of the promotional text message. And [00:24:00] the problem with that is what they're doing is they're trying to take what they've done, an email that they think is working. And they're like, Ooh, texting is seen more I'm going to do it in texting. But problem is texting is seen more and you're emails weren't seen as much. And text is kind of like right there. Very personal. Intimate. It's an intimate area, email not so much.

Tina Potts: And that's exactly, you gave the perfect word, intimate. It's an intimate conversation and. Fastest way to lose that intimacy is by just pushing, you know, the same message that you're doing in email.

Ryan Chapman: You'd probably really appreciate this. Have you seen my book The Messaging Connection?

Tina Potts: I haven't, but I'm going to go read it now.

Ryan Chapman: Okay, well I will get you a copy. I'll,share a link with you to the audio version, cause like you said, everybody's got their ear buds. You probably can listen to it while you're doing other stuff, but I got one on my desk. I'll just [00:25:00] open it up. So I cite the right chapter here, but in, chapter two. So chapter one, I talked about the email, the long... but chapter two is how you see contacts. I'm using that word, you know, on the right, you know, database, you have a contact, right? But how do you see them is really critical before, so before I even get into how do you do texting, right, which is what the book is about, right? Effective texting. I say what's really critical is how do you see people? And so many uninformed business owners I mean they haven't thought about it or no one's talked to him about it will look at people in their database as money bags. And the, the whole purpose of the contact is to extract money out of them. And this, the problem with this, this view, whether conscious or unconscious, and it you can tell immediately by looking at somebody's behavior, right? How did they see people is, is it impacts the way you communicate? So you go look at how you've [00:26:00] communicated with people in the past. Do you send emails with no intention of receiving response? That's something I loved about what you said earlier is reply to the email address. I want to hear back from you. I want to enter into a dialogue, a conversation. That's how we know someone cares about people. And doesn't see them just as money bags. Cause people that just see them as money bags want to put a barrier up between the customer and themselves. They want to construct walls that keep them out instead of building bridges to good conversation. And you know, to, to your point, the texting, that really not only is an intimate form of it is meant to be a one-to-one communication channel. It is meant for conversation, not just telling people stuff. That's the thing is I see people come in, they get their lists, they get access to texting, and they want to immediately broadcast out, go do this thing. They speak at people and stuff with people and just burns the bridge. I know you've been using texting probably even longer than we've [00:27:00] been in business.

Tina Potts: Yeah. I actually started with a product that was called Instant Customer that was there like a long, long time. And you know, when you guys came along and you had the bridge are ready to Infusionsoft, that was just, like a godsend for me. You know? And I want to hit back on what you said. Like I believe in relationship marketing and building relationships and everything. I do everything as a relationship, your relationship to money, your relationship to your family members, your relationship... relationship is everything. So like I just...that's how I am approaching all of it is by that relationship.

Ryan Chapman: And I can tell that immediately, just within two minutes of us talking.

Tina Potts: Oh wow.

Ryan Chapman: I can tell immediately that you were a person focused, you know, strategist.

Tina Potts: And I wanted to add just one more thing here, like in the [00:28:00] Infusionsoft CRM, when it's used properly, you have the best tool to build the most loving and honorable relationships. Even if you have other people who are doing things for you, when you have recorded all of the, the interaction, whether it's open the email, click the link, or somebody talked to him on the phone and they've recorded the note of what was said. Like that's real, deep, meaningful data that helps you create those kinds of relationships that you want.

Ryan Chapman: Absolutely, and that's why that focus has to be there. You have to be focused on really helping people. If you do that, the money follows.

Tina Potts: The money follows. Yep.

Ryan Chapman: Anytime you're focused on people as money bags, you may get the money in the short term, but you will lose it. You will lose [00:29:00] the relationship. You will lose the money. It never lasts long term. That's why it's so critical. If you, if you're like, Hey, I want to make a bunch of money. If you want to make a bunch of money focus on people.

Tina Potts: And, and that's why like, and that's where retention becomes the problem because you're always chasing new traffic, new leads, new customers, and you know, they don't stick. Right? Right. And there's nothing like somebody who has already opened up their, you know, used their credit card with you. Like by just keeping that person happy. A lot of times that's one of the first things I'm looking at when I go and work with a new company is how, you know, what is the real lifetime value of that customer and are they using it effectively? And a lot of times what you just said, if they're looking at them as money bags, that lifetime value is not really there. There's a one time off purchase, [00:30:00] maybe two, but it doesn't go for a long time. And, and referrals aren't there. You know, like there are so many things that happen when you treat people like money bags, you don't get referrals. You don't get like, there's so many things, so many.

Ryan Chapman: Yeah. Well, and before we go into some of the ways that you're helping people with retention, which is again, an expression of this philosophical view of treating people like people. Let's see, I want to go back, read a little bit more into filling events. What are some of the tactical things you're doing? We've talked about message, we talked about philosophy. What are some of the tactical things you'd mentioned? The, you know, the, the multimedia. Referencing emails and stuff like that. Is there like a specific structure that you generally find yourself starting with, even if you tailor it slightly to each application?

Tina Potts: Sure. So once I have someone opted in for whatever reason, so let's say [00:31:00] it's a paid event and I've created an opt in for them to learn more about the event, whatever the opt in is, the first thing they're getting is an email, but then the next day I'm following up with a text message, and it is a personal text message. It looks nothing like, you know, like a mass text message.

Ryan Chapman: What makes it feel personal? Because obviously it is being sent with marketing automation, right?

Tina Potts: Yep. It is being sent with marketing automation. One of the things I might say is, Oh, I just wanted to make sure you saw this and I give one little piece that they gotta go look for in the email, right? Like something that's going to entice them to want to go open the email and read the whole thing. But it was only one little tidbit of that email that I give them in that text message. So they'll go search. Yeah.

Ryan Chapman: There are four types of messages that I tell [00:32:00] people that they need to have in their campaigns and someplace, right? There's the content delivery text message. There's the email reference message, which you just gave a perfect example of on and the way that you did it too now, so when you're writing that message, you're probably thinking of a specific individual, aren't you?

Tina Potts: I am. I'm like, I'm thinking of the experience. What do people want to experience when they come to this event? And so that's my theme, right? So I have one center thing when I'm writing the whole funnel. What do people want to experience when they come to the event? Yeah, there could be 10 speakers, there could be all of this stuff, but what's the experience they're looking for? And I'm going to write to that experience. And I'm going to keep driving the message home of that experience.

Ryan Chapman: When you're writing up this text message, you're keeping that mission in mind, but then you're thinking about one individual person. And if they were a friend of yours, how would you text them? Is that fair to [00:33:00] say?

Tina Potts: That is very fair to say because I don't want to be intrusive. It shouldn't feel like a sales message. It just shouldn't feel like, all I care about is whether or not they're going to pay me money. It can't feel that way.

Ryan Chapman: So I hope people really get that, because that is the big secret. You know, all the people that have gotten great results using Fix Your Funnel texting have always come back to me and said, you're the thing that really changed everything for me was starting to think about personal interaction. Even though we're automating, even though we're getting leveraged through technology, being very intimate in terms of our thoughts on how are we trying to communicate with people, not worrying about being corporate or, you know, sounding like we're something we're not being very intimate in terms of, you know, I'm communicating with another human who's in this position. I can imagine the position they're in, and as they're getting that message, how will that be received? And that's, you know, that's [00:34:00] not very hard to do.

Tina Potts: It isn't. Sometimes, and I think you really hit on it. It's trying to be too quote unquote professional, like sometimes we turn this hat on when we really need to relax it a bit and go, wait a minute. If I was on the other side of this text message, is this a text message I would want somebody to send to me.

Ryan Chapman: Yeah, I love it. Okay, so you sent a text right after referencing back to the email. Now, the reason you'd probably do that is because you can put a whole lot more information in the email email than you can text message, right?

Tina Potts: Absolutely. And they're expecting. The expectation is, I'm expecting you to sell me in the email.

Ryan Chapman: Yes.

Tina Potts: I'm not expecting you to sell me in the text message.

Ryan Chapman: You'd have to be something special to build a sell somebody in 160 characters.

Tina Potts: Right? That's exactly right. And so that's where it starts [00:35:00] to, when people don't use it that way, and they start to try to sell at 160 characters, you end up getting stacking three to four text messages on top of each other, and people begin to unsubscribe immediately. So that's, you just don't do that.

Ryan Chapman: Yeah. Good. Okay. And then any, I haven't heard the voicemail drop, but that's gotta be in the mix somewhere.

Tina Potts: Yes. So like for instance, one of the great things and a great secret that everybody can try right now is if you have multiple speakers that are going to be at your event, just get them to record a small message. On the one secret thing. Again, pulling out one thing out of their presentation that they're going to... that people will experience when they're there. And so I remember for, I was doing a nonprofit and, they wanted me to get 500 girls into this building. And so, [00:36:00] they were going to have this little young up and coming rapper that was going to be there. I said, Hey, can you get him to just record a message real quick and just literally then within 48 hours, they were almost full from that one voicemail.

Ryan Chapman: Do you have to coach the speakers when you're doing that or do you just, I mean, some can fail terribly. I know this would probably hit it right on the mark.

Tina Potts: Yeah, I do. And the reason I do is just from a, because of what you and I just said, a lot of times people will turn on that professional thing, and I want them to have, I want them to talk as if they're talking to their friends, saying, Hey, listen, don't forget to come see me on Saturday because whatever. So yeah, no, I do coach. I help craft all of the messages and everything.

Ryan Chapman: Yeah. It's really important to have somebody that has that understanding of what it sounds like when it's right, [00:37:00] because again, while voicemails probably aren't seen as much as text message, they're probably pretty close. And if they're listened to, there's so much information being conveyed so they can really hurt you or help you depending on if you do it right.

Tina Potts: And that's the secret. You just said it. You know, I am bad when it comes to voicemail messages. If you leave a message on my cell phone, you might as well have just texted me. Right? So like that's just how I feel. But the people who actually listen to them. If you make a mistake, if you are to selly the in that message, you've lost them and you've probably lost them forever. Yeah.

Ryan Chapman: You really can't have people reading those messages. Can you?

Tina Potts: No, Nope. And the other great part about it now is that most cell phones transcribe your message too. So [00:38:00] when when you go like, instead of saying, hello, Tina, if you go, Hey, Tina, like when they see that transcription, they more want to listen to it because it looks like it's a more friendly message. So there's fault in every step of that process. Every single step.

Ryan Chapman: Yeah. Well, that's very cool. I think people can take that and they can probably, if you've done events, those are little tips right there will help you a ton. But any kind of message you're trying to get across, that's going to be make a big difference.

Tina Potts: Yup. Yup. And timing is always important.

Ryan Chapman: What do you mean by that?

Tina Potts: What I mean is don't start too fast with the text messaging. You know when they first opt in and they've given you their cell phone number. Yes. Have that one initial message, but make sure you get the email off first. [00:39:00] Give it time to marinate, then come back. That will change your conversions.

Ryan Chapman: That does a couple of things for you too, right? Because one is, you know, you're not hitting them all at once, like hitting them with a baseball bat, but also you don't need to necessarily spend the money to do the text messages and the voicemail drop if they actually check their email. Right? So if they're part of that small group that will check and respond to the email before they get anything else, we'll let them do that. Pull them out of the campaign so you don't have to waste the money on the, or even the attention currency on the text or the voicemail drop. Let's save that for another moment in time. Right? But if they don't, then now we give them the nudge with the text and let a little time for that. And then now we give them the nudge with the voicemail. Right? You don't spend all of your money equally like I always talk about it cause I like basketball, I'm six seven, right? And you don't play defense equally to everybody on the court.

Tina Potts: No, of course not.

Ryan Chapman: If [00:40:00] you do that, then somebody is just dominating on you. You're cheating a little bit and helping one of the guys that you know, you know is the main score because any, if you go watch any basketball game, not everybody's a fan, but those that are know there are a few, there's one player that scores the most. There's a second player that scores a little bit, you know, less, and then the rest of them will have a few points between them, if we're lucky. We've got a good team right. That's right, but you would want to apply your defense unevenly to address that, that attack that's coming at you the same way, you don't want to just do all your marketing equally the same. You want to say, okay, where's the best place to bring out the big guns so I really could get that movement so I don't abuse the medium and lose their interest.

Tina Potts: That's again where you're talking about I'm a excellent automation expert and someone who's just playing around with it, because that takes really understanding tags, understanding movement through the automation sequences and [00:41:00] that really is about maintaining a great relationship and not over abusing anything. That takes work that takes work. And, I'm glad you mentioned that because I think that's very, very important for people to know.

Ryan Chapman: Okay. So now I think we did a good job of you covering some of the highlights of what you do in fulfillment to fill these events. I love the idea that you had brought up of, you know, having a speaker, you know, just give a quick thing and being able to use the leverage, the speakers, that may be the reason that people would want to attend to get them get excited. What do you do about people helping people after they become customers? So they bought the product, they joined the membership, they, signed up for the event. What are you doing to keep people involved with the company in the longterm?

Tina Potts: Oh wow. That's really where text messaging and voicemail drops are so powerful, because again, we talked about the intimate, that's [00:42:00] the intimacy of both of those. So think about a coach who has a group coaching program and you're doing the one to many. But you still want to make sure that that person is feeling seen and heard in the relationship. So when they get a random message, a voicemail drop where they look, Oh wow, I didn't notice my phone didn't ring, and then they hear from their coach, Hey, it's Tina. I just wanted to check on you today, I know that you're working on some big things and I just wanted to give you a message to keep going. Keep, keep pushing through, even though I know it feels hard right now, you can do this.

Ryan Chapman: That's really, really powerful because you know, if you ask any coach what they're going to tell you as well, of course I'd want to do that. Of course, I'd want to check in, give encouragement, that kind of stuff, but if you leave it to [00:43:00] them to do. The human nature portion of us, it kind of falls. I'll give you an example. I've got a cousin, her husband is a dentist, and he was telling me how what he was doing was texting all of his patients every day. And I thought he was doing this in the evening because these texts go out about five. Right? Then came to find out that he was writing these text messages, you know, right after he finished the procedure on him and then scheduling it to go out in the afternoon, genius idea through the Fix Your Funnel app. Right?

Tina Potts: Wow.

Ryan Chapman: Do you know about our scheduled send?

Tina Potts: Yes, and I love that. That's amazing.

Ryan Chapman: Yeah. So he was doing that, but he, you know, things kind of changed with the whole virus thing and everything. And so, my daughter just had to have her wisdom teeth pulled out cause they're coming in weird and stuff. So we had to go, even though it's kind of weird timing and I didn't get the text message like we did before, you know, and I thought, huh, [00:44:00] interesting. So human nature eventually caught up with them. So even though he had good intentions, he was doing something really good for creating that connection with his patients and checking in on them. You know, Hey, just want to see how the pain is doing. Let me know if you need any help. You know, that kind of check and was creating a lot of Goodwill in the company. Human nature, his humanity portion of him was wanting to do that, but human human nature eventually wore out. I kind of postulated that at some point, human nature, even though his strategy of doing immediately after the procedure was way better than doing it at 5:00 PM. Would more likely forget or be tired or whatever, eventually even that one wore down. So you and I would probably say, well then let's make it an automated procedure to check in with a patient on the evening of the day that they come in. And the doctor doesn't have to write anything. We can probably make that a fairly generic yet personal message and accomplish the same thing, but have consistency. And so what you're doing with these [00:45:00] voicemail drops is you're creating a consistent expression of humanity that builds relationship but isn't going to be deterred by human nature.

Tina Potts: I love how you put it. I love how you put it, and then think about this too, Ryan, think about this. In every industry you have an association, and that association is giving statistics, right? So let's just say in the coaching industry, they say that people may sign up for a group coaching program, and most of those people by month three are going to go flat and they're not participating. So you can get all of these statistics. What I like to do is say we're going to blow these statistics out of the water cause I'm going to go to my three and I'm going to make sure that I've put things in from month one, month two, that when month three comes, they're not falling off like that. [00:46:00] So yeah. It's just such a different way of looking at things.

Ryan Chapman: I love that you're using those market statistics to help because those market statistics, generally speaking, are reflection of human nature's impact on a business.

Tina Potts: Yep. Again, I love how you say it.

Ryan Chapman: The human nature of the client as well as the provider, right? Both of them have a part that plays, that reveals the statistics. I mean, if you go to anyone that has a membership site, this isn't group coaching, but membership site three to four months is the average retention. We used a lot of the concepts that you're talking about in our training business that we started back in 2007, which is kind of where the Genesis of Fix Your Funnel came from, is all the stuff we were doing there. We kept people for five and six years in a membership program. Wow. Now you only do that though if you're building relationships.

Tina Potts: That's right. That's right.

Ryan Chapman: I love what you're doing here because this is, [00:47:00] you know, if you want to have a successful company, create great relationships, actually care about people, use marketing automation to mitigate the impact of human nature and express your humanity, enhance your humanity even, and you know what you're doing, Tina is so great because you've come, you've done this when we get arrived to these conclusions in slightly different ways, but you, you came at it through just pure experience of working and helping companies, but under that foundation of your sincere concern and care for people. And so you brought that to the market and then you learned all these other tools and stuff, and with those tools you just expressed what was already in your heart. I think that's super critical. When you're building a team, everybody's got to have the same philosophy.

Tina Potts: Yup, and let's, let's give something that everybody that listens to this broadcast can use in retention right now. If you're building a business online, one of the biggest things that most people are worried about are [00:48:00] chargebacks. That time, you know, where people have buyer remorse, that's seven day period. The first thing that you could do is add one of these automated heartfelt messages and give a homework assignment so that your customer now has buy in before they actually get started. It's almost like a pre-assignment. Just like when Ryan and I, before we got started, we had a small little conversation. We had like a pre-conversation that's the same thing, and it will change the buyer remorse and you can automate that. And a lot of times we forget that that period, that seven day period is where you're most vulnerable. And then the next is the 30 day. But in that seven days, if you just change the experience by using more personal messaging, you change your refund rates, your [00:49:00] charge backs, all of that.

Ryan Chapman: That is awesome. Hey, thank you so much. This has been a great conversation. I have learned a lot. I've been reminded of a lot of things that I know that we could do even better in our company because of, you know, your examples and what you've shared. This has been fantastic. Thank you so much, Tina.

Tina Potts: Oh, you're welcome. And thank you so much for having me.

Ryan Chapman: Now there's gotta be some people that have been listening to this podcast that are curious to know how they could reach out to you, how they could get ahold of you. What's the best way for folks to reach out to you?

Tina Potts: It's clientattractionsystems.net.

Ryan Chapman: Great. We'll have that in the show notes, so you can click on that. If you go down to the bottom of the transcription, you'll see that at the bottom. But thank you. So say it one more time, just so if people that are listening to the want to wait and read at the bottom.

Tina Potts: Clientattractionsystems.net.

Ryan Chapman: Perfect. Well, thanks so much, Tina. We're going to have [00:50:00] to do this again.

Tina Potts: Oh, thank you. And anytime. Anytime. Thanks so much for having me.

Ryan Chapman: My pleasure.