The Benefits of Using 5% with GR Hoff

Episode Transcription

[00:00:00] Ryan Chapman: Hey, I'm really excited to have GR Hoff with me. We've known each other for a little while, haven't we?

GR Hoff: I would say a very, very little while Ryan, but it's an honor, sir.

Ryan Chapman: Well, I know that we've met at a number of conferences over the years. GR works with... Principally with gym owners, right?

GR Hoff: Yes, sir. Yes.

Ryan Chapman: Yeah. So we're going to be talking about some cool stuff today, but it might not be what you're actually thinking about. This isn't just a discussion for gym owners- although if you're a gym owner it might be, you know, of special interest to you just because GR has that perspective. But we're gonna be talking about, really, a pragmatic approach to the business.

It was interesting because we were talking before we started recording that that's kind of where things naturally went to, which I really resonated with GR because I really feel like that's what's important. You know, so many people get caught up in doing certain things versus the right thing. And, you know, I feel like you don't want to be too married to... Like, cause, you're a person who can [00:01:00] recommend softwares to people in your position. And if you get into that habit of just recommending a product, things can go sideways for people and for you, right?

GR Hoff: Sure, sure. 100%. I-

Ryan Chapman: How do you approach this whole situation where you're looking at a new prospective customer, you're looking at their business... How do you make sure that you give them the right recommendation?

GR Hoff: I started this as a coach, right? And, so as a coach, trainer, a gym owner, like, training people out of the basement and growing to where we are now. And so if I'm going to operate within my integrity as a coach, I need to make the right recommendation for that person based on where they're at, right? And so if we go like... It's very easy to see kind of in the... Maybe the fitnessy world, where if you are completely, detrained, you're 500 pounds, you have knee and hip and shoulder and back issues and everything else and we try to have you do the same workouts as, you know, an [00:02:00] NFL linebacker, that is clearly not an intelligent thing for us to put you through on day one.

Ryan Chapman: Yeah. I love that analogy.

GR Hoff: And, when I... So, like, I love Infusionsoft. I'm a certified partner. It's one my favorite things. We recommend it to a lot of gym owners now. But when I first started paying for the software I probably kept it around for 12 or 14 months as an expensive MailChimp. To no fault of anyone else, right? Other than myself. And...

Ryan Chapman: Was that just where your business was at the time?

GR Hoff: Exactly. Exactly. So, I, you know, I'd heard, 'oh my gosh, you can do all these super fancy things.' And it was like 'GR, like, you're not making any money and you don't have any time to be... You're still the solo preneur, the operator. There's no resources-' And resources, I think, could be defined as time, money, and energy, right?

Ryan Chapman: Yeah. I love that.

GR Hoff: And we just didn't have the resources to [00:03:00] take the time aside to make that investment in something that would give those long tail returns that an automation platform I think does, right?

Ryan Chapman: And I think a lot of people have found themselves, if they're not currently in that situation, where they see, kind of, the dream, right? 'What could this thing do for me?' And they jump in and maybe they're feel like they're kind of wasting their money a little bit cause they haven't quite implemented.

GR Hoff: Yeah, no, 100%. And that's where I think we try to take that pragmatic approach. I tell people... You know, my first gym, it's still doing its thing, but I call it my mistake facility. And one of the things we did right, is we said, 'we're going to treat every prospect, treat every client, like they're your mother, your brother, your child.' So what's-

Ryan Chapman: Great philosophy.

GR Hoff: Yeah. What's the advice that I would give, you know, that young athlete or that training client, you know, what would I tell them if they were my little brother? Well, at the same token, with these- with the businesses that [00:04:00] we work with now, you know, what's the right platform or tool or like, what's the next barrier, the next bottleneck that you need to break down? Because it might be- I was talking to a gym owner earlier today and she is... She's a bad ass and she's making all these jumps, but she's still very much in that kind of owner/operator phase. If we kind of do an extreme reach here, she probably doesn't have any business learning corporate finance or like, trying to take her company public.

Ryan Chapman: Sure.

GR Hoff: That would not be the best use of her resources at this stage. For her, like moving into a platform that will automatically nurture leads and do all these different things for her makes a heck of a lot of sense.Aand so it all depends on, you know, what are the resources of that business and business owner right now and what makes the best sense for them based on where they're at?

Ryan Chapman: Yeah. I always think about [00:05:00] the number one problem for most businesses is cashflow. And so whenever I- if I'm ever talking to somebody in that kind of new position, I'm always thinking about, 'well, how can we immediately improve cashflow?' Because the sooner we get cashflow straightened out, well now they got the breathing room to start making mistakes, right? And survive. Cause, I think for a lot of people they gotta- they have to either get a coach, they got to get a trainer, you know, or they got to go through the school of hard knocks and figure out how does this business operate? But if the cashflow isn't sufficient to let them learn those lessons, then they're toast. And that's why so many businesses fail so quickly is because they don't wrap their head around cashflow. So when we were talking initially, you said, you know, 'I really focus on how do we get them the cash so that they can start thinking about automation if they're not at a stage where they're ready for automation?'

GR Hoff: Big time.

Ryan Chapman: What are some ways that you, kind of, will get somebody to that quick path to cash? You don't have to be super specific, but generally speaking, so that they can start thinking [00:06:00] about maybe a more advanced approach to business.

GR Hoff: Yeah, I mean, like there's a heck of a lot that we do there. And in a lot of it is still, you know, we rightfully or wrongly, we still kind of take that... I'd almost call it like boutique, individualized approach to coaching business owners. Cause I- it's not... A lot of people have these diamonds in their own backyard, right? They might have an untapped list or they might have referrals, but for- you know, in the gym owner space just to pick all my people there may very well be something where you're like, 'oh my gosh, you're drastically undercharging based on what you should be doing right now.' Maybe it's a little bit of a price hike. Other people have lists that they haven't reached out to in X period of time, and it might be 'okay, how much money we got?' If it's zero, then you're going to go through and you're going to reach out to all those people. We're going to craft some sort of special offer. It's a nice high up, front [00:07:00] cash grab for you to try to get you some resources, to get you some breathing room, without totally overwhelming you on the fulfillment side of the business.

Ryan Chapman: Sure. Cause it is a bit of an adjustment to start using automation in the business.

GR Hoff: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Chapman: It's helpful if you've got a little change in your pocket when you start hitting that new frontier.

GR Hoff: Well, yeah! And depending on how much... I would say, I guess, how plentiful those diamonds are, how big the list is, a lot of these people- just to swing the other way, I know we're kind of saying, 'well, you might not need automation. You might not need automation.' Some of these guys are so scared to... And, you know, a lot of it, I think we come by it honestly. We've tried tools that didn't work out the way we wanted to in the past or whatever it might be. Things were too complicated. Who knows? But in a lot of cases, man, you've got whatever it might be. You've got these 2000 names or 500 people that used to do business with you. You know, these are former customers that already have a bit of an affinity with you. But maybe we invest in that automation [00:08:00] platform and even if we're using .0005% of what- if we want to name drop the name of the podcast here, right? The show that we're on here, for Fix Your Funnel to do a text broadcast or something to these customers with a special offer. Like, that could be an excellent, absolutely outstanding return on time, money, and energy for some of these guys. So it just all depends on what that person's situation is.

Ryan Chapman: You mentioned the 5% too, before we started recording. It made me think when we first started using Infusionsoft we used like two features. And then gradually we'd add another one and then another one as the business needed it. And that approach was really a lot different than a lot of people were taking to automation. Because instead of saying, 'okay, well what does the business need? What's going to buy us time and money? Let's implement that piece.' They said, 'well, what can [00:09:00] this do? And I want to really get my money's-' It's like going to... I just got back from a cruise, right? On the cruise it's really about food cause you can't do anything else. And so you're like, 'well, should I have another ice cream? Can I get a pizza? You know, what do I eat?' You know? And to get your money's worth like, there's that unlimited soda. I don't drink alcohol so, you know, it was unlimited soda.

GR Hoff: Sure.

Ryan Chapman: The question is, well, how many sodas do I need to drink to get my money's worth, right? So you can actually make yourself sick trying to get your money's worth, right?

GR Hoff: That's the best! That's awesome.

Ryan Chapman: But when you come at a software like, 'well, how do I get my money's worth? I want to use the largest percentage possible of the software.' It actually goes South on you, just like it does on the cruise, right? I got home and I felt terrible. I was like, 'I'm not doing that again.' I would have felt much better if I would've just eaten till satisfaction.

GR Hoff: Sure.

Ryan Chapman: To make- get my money's worth or whatever. Which is silly cause it's not a big concern but, you know- Yet that happens to us too frequently. So [00:10:00] that 5% really resonated with me because in business that's what I did when I first started using Infusionsoft is I said, 'well, what do I need it to do for me?' I had just used that feature and I figured it was about 5% of the feature set than Infusionsoft had. And they've even cut back on features from when I first started, you know? There was a bunch of other things they had in there that they've abandoned since. But I wasn't worried about that cause it didn't impact my bottom line.

GR Hoff: Right. Right.

Ryan Chapman: All I really needed was some of these basic email campaigns at the time cause it was, you know, before texting really was an option. You know, just using the basic features. And I did, like, a subscription management because we had a membership. And that's all we used, you know? There was a whole heck of a lot more that we could have used. But that was all that we really needed to get the result that we were looking for. And that allowed us to go from zero to 1.3 million in 12 months. So I became a huge fan of the 5%.

GR Hoff: I was gonna say, sure sounds like it worked for you.

Ryan Chapman: Yeah! Maybe, [00:11:00] you know, it's misapplied, but I just feel like in any business, to your point, that if they'll just take that piece that actually will produce the result they're looking for and not worry about the rest of it, I think they're way better off.

GR Hoff: Yeah. I absolutely love that cruise analogy. I think that's fantastic. I'll have to steal that, talking to my people. That's amazing. Cause it is exactly what I think people do. They will either go in trying to do way, way, way too much. When in reality- so, you know, if you take the thought exercise of, 'okay, where am I now?' And you know, where's the- you know, I don't want you to think about your 10 year crazy vision here, right? But where's, like, the 30, 60, or 90 day goal? We're cracking steps. Like, what's the initial bottleneck that's stopping you from getting it?

Ryan Chapman: Perfect. I'm so glad you brought up that because if you do address that bottleneck then you'll actually get results. That's where I see people disappointed [00:12:00] with automation is they try to solve all the problems. But the problem is not all problems are equal, right? Some problems actually don't produce any result at all. They're in that 80% that produce 20% of the results. And so I'm glad that you used that idea of hitting the bottleneck. What's the one thing that's actually controlling your revenue and staying focused on that instead of, you know, everything else?

GR Hoff: Right. What is, I guess, bottlenecking that revenue right this second, right? What's the highest impact thing that you can do right this second? And on the other side, again, like sort of halfway playing... I guess it's not devil's advocate, but just playing the other side of the coin. You have people that, you know, they won't even go on the cruise if they feel like they can't eat- they can't drink every type of soda and drink- eat every single item at the buffet and eat and gorge themselves, you know, sick.

Ryan Chapman: They go, 'I've got to wait to go until I'm like, really got a big [00:13:00] appetite.'

GR Hoff: Right. Right. So if you feel like, 'oh, I'm not even going to do this because it has all these things that I'm not going to use.' Well, a lot of times if you do the math, you know, making one little tiny change that opens up- you know, even if you're being conservative, let's say that changes your backend conversion by 5 or 10%.

Ryan Chapman: Well, those can be life changing for someone.

GR Hoff: Exactly. Exactly. So, I would not be afraid to move into a given tool if it is actually going to improve things over your baseline, even if you're only using 5%. We don't have a single gym owner customer using Fix Your Funnel and we use it and we've got, you know, a good, like, multiple handfuls of gym owners that use it, that use every single feature. Like we're probably all in that in that 5% phase, but...

Ryan Chapman: There's an ancient scripture that says 'line upon line, precept upon precept, here [00:14:00] a little, there a little.' It's talking about spiritual learning, right? You don't spiritually learn everything all at once. And in the business, same thing. You don't just suddenly become a multimillion dollar business. It's done line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there little. So you find this 5% that is going to make a difference and you utilize that until that's not making the difference anymore. And then you add a little bit more. And I just found that when people try to go in and fully automate the whole business versus doing it on a demand basis, they usually are frustrated. Because they've added this whole new distraction to their business. It usually is just a shot in the dark cause it's not built on demand and then it doesn't produce nearly the result that matches, the investment of time, energy and money.

GR Hoff: And they've probably done the... [00:15:00] done lower quality work on the actual active bottleneck because they've tried to fix everything instead of just focusing on, 'man, maybe I could do a booking campaign.' Right? 'Maybe I could do an automated lead nurture to booking that first appointment and just make that really, really good.'

Ryan Chapman: It's interesting, I've found that a lot of businesses- this is something that we've been talking about recently because I... For me, I'm just like, you know, life's too short, I hate to waste time and spend effort on things that don't make any difference. So we were doing an evaluation at the beginning of the year and saying, 'well, what strategies really move the needle the most for folks?' And the one that we came up with was prospect to appointment. The largest number of businesses are trying to sell by appointment. I don't know what you call it specifically in the gym world, but that initial sales conversation is like the goal. So how do we move people from prospect to appointment? And so we just focused on, 'okay, what do you need for that?'

It turns out you need to acquire a couple of softwares to do it. You need Infusionsoft, Fix Your Funnel, something like AppointmentCore or whatever. [00:16:00] But whatever the cost is would be nominal compared to the outcome, and you wouldn't use all the features in any of those three softwares. You would just use a specific feature in each one of them, right? But, because it addresses a really common problem, they could get a huge result from it in very little time. So, you know, I just feel like we can't overstate this concept enough because too many people go in trying to fix the whole thing instead of going a step at a time and letting the business communicate. I'm really glad you brought that up.

GR Hoff: Yeah. Fix that bottleneck and then see what the next thing is to... It doesn't necessarily have to break before you go and fix it, but you know, see where the next sort of...

Ryan Chapman: Where's the next opportunity?

GR Hoff: Exactly, exactly.

Ryan Chapman: Do you have an approach that you use for that or is it kind of intuitive?

GR Hoff: No, I mean, so we try to dig deep into people's numbers and see where the actual data is. And if you're-

Ryan Chapman: Because you're so [00:17:00] familiar with your niche of gym owners you know which numbers to look at.

GR Hoff: Exactly. So if we see we see, kind of, some red flag metrics in different areas we'll look in at what their processes are. And, you know, in a lot of cases it's that- you know, for example, with the lead nurture, lead to appointment type system, we'll have a- you still have people who say, 'well, yeah, I got all these leads on Facebook and I emailed them once and it's been two weeks. You think I should email them again?' It's like, 'oh my gosh. I'm going to have a heart attack, but I think we might need to look at and work on that first.'

Ryan Chapman: That reminds me of a story. When Trent and I- Trent's my brother and business partner- when we first started using Infusionsoft, shortly after we'd been introduced to Dan Kennedy and direct response marketing. So we had these, kind of, two things we were working with. And so we solved the initial problem that our customers had which was actually fulfilling on the promise they were making to the [00:18:00] marketplace. But as soon as we cleared that out, suddenly we created a new problem, which was they needed more business. And so we started off- we did a done-for-them marketing program. Then we'd charge like 2,500 bucks a month, plus the cost of direct mail to do direct mail campaigns for them. And because it was in real estate, you know, the value of transaction is fairly high. So it was easy for them to get ROI on that.

And we had a mastermind meeting with all of them and we asked them a question. We said, 'so, what's your followup process?' Because we had an indication that it wasn't great, you know? We were generating a hundred leads a month for them, which in real estate is pretty good.

GR Hoff: I was going to say it sounds like a lot.

Ryan Chapman: Yeah. And what we found out was they said, 'well, when they call in we'll have a conversation with them and if they decide not to list with us, then usually we just move on.' And it just blew my mind cause I was just thinking 'you guys don't even understand [00:19:00] what you're doing.' Cause they were doing well enough that they had return on investment and they were happy that way. But they were leaving all this money on the table cause they didn't have just a simple process. I was like 'well, geez guys, what we need to do first is just have some process with dealing with incoming calls.' Cause we were just on the lead-gen side.

GR Hoff: Sure, sure.

Ryan Chapman: It just blew me away how these guys who were making, I think, most of them were making over 200,000 a year with their real estate business, which is on the high end for most real estate agents. And they were all over the nation and it was just... It just blew my mind that they had no process whatsoever. And so it was a natural next step for us to say, 'okay, well let's start thinking about how we create a basic nurture for these folks and have some sort of system, even if you didn't have a marketing automation platform, just some sort of system for how you're going to deal with incoming leads.' Cause there's only one that had some system. And that was because they had read the book, The Ultimate Sales Machine.

[00:20:00] GR Hoff: There you go. Was that Chet Holmes?

Ryan Chapman: Yeah. It's funny how whenever anyone has these conversations the same names come up!

GR Hoff: It is, and it's funny how similar some of these different markets are in terms of, 'oh yeah. Like, we called them once. If they don't, we'll leave them alone.' And I'm sure a real estate transaction, particularly in good markets, has a nice, high, you know, customer value, ACV, or whatever we want to use in comparison to the fitness industry. But, you know, for a lot of our guys in this- cause I work mostly with these boutique gym owners, right? So really high touch, high service. You know, I think the average retention at an Orange Theory is like three months. The average retention at the places that we'll work with is a lot of times, you know, three or four times that even just for the average place. And so, you know, the value of a given client, particularly [00:21:00] in the world of a, you know, just a solo-preneur, coach-turned-trainer, it's exceptionally high. In the fact that, you know, a lot of cases, it's like one email or one this.

And no- you know, I love the Dean Jackson, you know, nine word email. We adopt that and use the nine word text message and variations of it multiple times in any sequence. You know, any automation that we're doing, we've got to have that texting and particularly that two-way texting conversation. But it's crazy how little you'll see people do. And, if you show them the math- you know, if only, let's say all a hundred of those people say no right away, and you only get one to come back off of your automated responses, like, what's that person worth to you?

Ryan Chapman: Yeah. Oh, and I can't even imagine if we would have had the tools that we have available to us today then, because this was... This was probably 10 [00:22:00] years ago, and so the tools at our disposal at that time don't even come in the same realm as what we have today. Today it would be just amazing. I mean, just amazing. There's so much that you can do with so little that's available to people today. And particularly like you're saying in texting. And that brought up an interesting conversation we also were having about one-way versus two-way. What have you been your thoughts about one-way texting versus two-way texting?

GR Hoff: So it's just, I mean, it's a... Like, when I get to talk to kind of someone in this space and maybe vent a little bit, like yourself. But, you know, I'll hear people, /oh, well, you know, this tool does texting, or this tool allows us to do some outbound SMS or reminders or whatever it is.' And, like, again, if we're talking value to the audience and maybe- my guess is you wouldn't feel differently about this, and you may very well have real data, [00:23:00] unlike the... You know, me using the, you know, 93.1% of statistics are just completely pulled out of your rear end here- but I would guess that probably 90% of your value comes out of the possibility of having a two-way conversation with this person, right? Sending an outbound message that they can't respond to you, to me is, is about as, you know, worthwhile as... Almost as not doing it at all. Use something that gives you two-way texting.

Ryan Chapman: Yeah, that's been our... What we have observed to our own use and also our users is that all of the money, all of the opportunity, is in the conversation. There's definitely value in being able to speak at people. And this is where, kind of, your newbs will get some benefit out of it. So they're like, 'oh, yay!' Because people actually see this instead of [00:24:00] my emails that they don't see. And so they celebrate that and that's like... That's almost like, you know, putting your finger in the cake and going, 'mmm, that tastes so great.' And then walking away. You just are touching the icing of the cake. You get inside of it and then you'll find out how good it really is. The conversation is where all that money is.

And it's interesting, I've seen... Because texting has become such a buzzword, you know, for marketing automation, how many systems have said, 'okay, well we got to check the box?' And, you know, you gotta be able to tell the difference between checking the box and actually, you know, making it work. And unfortunately, even within the Infusionsoft world there's... There are quite a few who check the box for solutions that haven't quite understood where the value really is. And I think until you actually get into it- I mean, that's the benefit you have, is you've actually done it for yourself and for [00:25:00] customers, so you understand why that's such a big deal.

I heard a recent stat at a, you know, telemarketing or, you know, kind of a teleconference- I guess, telecarriers. You know, people that do texting and calling. And they said that 95% of numbers for a business person texting, that are set up, have no method for handling incoming text messages.

GR Hoff: Wow!

Ryan Chapman: 95%. And then, it's interesting, I saw another statistic today that goes in the same thing. That's 94% of people are annoyed by business messaging. So, you know, I think that there is a correlation there that because automation has become so big, we've got to make sure that we are utilizing automation to start conversations instead of just being the end of the conversation. And that transition is where all the intelligent marketers are going. Obviously, you're there where you're seeing no, the automation is supposed to start the conversation, not finish it.

GR Hoff: Sure. Yeah. And [00:26:00] add some- I mean, I think, you know, one of the mistakes we see in our industry is people try to get... Try to get too corporate, right? We try to get too-

Ryan Chapman: Oh, gosh, yeah!

GR Hoff: Too buttoned up and too dressed up because, you know, a lot of us- and most of us in the gym industry weren't turned down by Harvard and might not have all that much experience in the business world. And might feel like the way to sound smart is to try to sound like, I dunno, I'm trying to think of a bad example.

Ryan Chapman: I think what it comes down to is there's a little sense of- by the way, you have to think the sponsorship by my dogs.

GR Hoff: I was going to say I'm glad it's not mine cause that was a possibility here today too.

Ryan Chapman: I have one in particular. I have two mini schnauzers and one in particular just... He knows whenever is the wrong time to bark. I don't know what he's saying but I'm sure it's stupid. He's just... I love him, but he's a [00:27:00] dumb dog.

I think what it is, is it's a little bit of insecurity. People think that they need to sound a certain way and they want to sound like the bigger corporations. What they don't know is the big, dirty secret is that the big, dumb corporations are full of a bunch of people who are insecure about who they are and they're trying to sound more important than they are as well. So what we're trying to do when we try and emulate big, dumb corporations is we're trying to emulate a bunch of people who are insecure about themselves as well. So we just create this terrible echo chamber. And what everybody's looking for is a real person.

GR Hoff: Yeah.

Ryan Chapman: You know, if you're trying to get ahold of a big corporation, the last thing you want is another cog in the wheel. You know, you want someone who's real, authentic, and actually cares about what your problem is. And so authenticity- and authenticity doesn't mean that you don't have any filter, it just means you speak like a real person speaking to another real person. And that's easy for everybody to do. So you just think about, 'well, if I'm just talking to my best friend or my brother, sister, or something like that, how would I communicate with them so I could effectively help [00:28:00] them?' And you're right on target.

GR Hoff: And we use the- just that we had a little retreat for our gym owners last weekend and we did a whole piece on content messaging and all those things. And it's... You know, we say that your continent- and you could apply this to your, you know, to your automation sequences in your feed nurture as well- it's two things. It's affinity and its authority. And affinity if you break it down- cause I just love my alliteration here- affinity is just like, ''oh, they know and like you, right? And your authority, I guess you could say your likability, goes in the know I can trust thing, too. You know, your authority is like, 'oh, you kind of seem like you might know what you're talking about.' And the affinity part is that 'I like you' and all these things are starting to point towards me - having a higher probability of doing business with you because you don't sound like a corporate shill. I think it's-

Ryan Chapman: That's perfect. I love that. Well, hey, thank you so much, GR. I feel like we've covered a lot of different topics here that are really important. Because even if- in particular, right, we always want to [00:29:00] talk to everybody that can use what we're talking about. But in particular, if you're one of those people that has found yourself either fallen into the trap of trying to automate everything instead of the thing that actually will make a difference, or you're the person who is not sure how to communicate. Like, 'should I try and sound real professional or should I try and be real?' You know, we've covered all of that as well as like, how do I make sure I don't fall into the trap of going into the business of using the software versus staying in my business. And I think these topics, especially for the new person, are really powerful because it can help them to go down that right path and avoid a heck of a lot of headache that we see so many people go through. Cause you know, one of the things that kind of disturbs me, GR, is just this idea. There's so many people starting to use Infusionsoft and then quitting.

GR Hoff: Big time.

Ryan Chapman: Yeah. It just- it breaks my heart just because I've had such success with using marketing automation that when I see someone that [00:30:00] falls into so many pit holes, you know, they just made every mistake possible that they just give up. That, I mean, to me, that breaks my heart because, you know, I had a dream to start a company that would be successful, that would help people, that would make money so I could take care of my family, right? But that would do it in a way that was responsible and ethical so that the people that were my customers would be better off, you know, as a result. And for someone that has that dream and then because of software or bad advice ends up drowning and just giving up on that dream, I mean, that's heartbreaking to me.

GR Hoff: 100%.

Ryan Chapman: I mean, I imagine that's what got you into doing the type of work you're doing is because you saw gym owners who had all the right pieces but just didn't know what to do. And all they needed was someone that, you know, had that experience, had that forethought of, 'here's the path that actually will get you the results you're looking for,' that could show them that path, help them along the way, [00:31:00] charge them appropriately for that help, and then get them to the destination they're going for. I mean, that's gotta be really fulfilling for you.

GR Hoff: It's the best, man. And it's, you know, it's a world that- I tell people, you kind of have... The fitness industry is almost like this- let's call it the fitness guru industry, if you will. It was almost this perfect storm of like, you have the fitness industry, which may or may not always have the best reputation, right? Fake before and afters and throw the supplement industry in there and everything else. And then you have the make-more-money industry, which, you know, you and I both know isn't always filled with the most upstanding providers. And then you collide these together and the, you know, the gym owners and the buddies that I came up in this industry with, you know, there's- I kept on seeing my friends basically getting screwed over, for lack of a better term, and given bad advice and all these different things. And [00:32:00] frankly it, it kinda... It kinda pissed me off and moved me further into this world.

And so it is something that hits very close to home, you know? When you see people that are good people, that are trying to do the right things, and do right by the people they serve and their families and their communities and all those things that, you know, that don't make it for any number of reasons. And I think that's probably why both of us are here, right?

Ryan Chapman: Yeah. Well, and that's why we do this podcast. I really appreciate you coming on and sharing some of your insights and understandings. Like, let's say somebody listened to this and they say, 'yeah, I'd like to actually chat with GR. He's got some... Some stuff that I would like to learn more about.' How could they get help from you?

GR Hoff: So if you are a gym owner, we work with gym owners specifically. If you're not a gym owner, I guess we can be buddies. But if you are a gym owner and you want to talk about growing your business in ways that you, you know, your team, your community, the [00:33:00] people you serve, I always say not least, importantly, your bank account, you're going to feel awesome about, you can head over to www.myfriendsaysyougrowgyms.com. Insert lecture from Ryan here on leaky plumbers for not having a fancy text thing yet. But, www.myfriendsaysyougrowgyms.com.

Ryan Chapman: Okay, that's good. Yeah, I said it was a mouthful cause I asked GR before if there's a way... Ideally, we'd love to see that he had a keyword and a phone number. Just so that we can get you those people texting to you and just starting conversations with you. But I know that that's something you do for your clients.

GR Hoff: It is!

Ryan Chapman: But- I know, I know it! We all have leaky faucets but are plumbers, you know? We've found problems and then sometimes we leave some of our problems for the last because we're so worried about helping those customers get the results that they need. And I'm sure because the market does have quite a few [00:34:00] scoundrels that people like you are in high demand, so that's probably why you haven't even had a need to. But, I appreciate you letting me put that little plug in there for the value of having a keyword and phone number, hopefully not at your expense. But it's my- say it one more time.

GR Hoff: www.myfriendsaysyougrowgyms.com

Ryan Chapman: www.myfriendsaysyougrowgyms.com. I love that. That's pretty clever. All right, well thanks so much, GR. It's been a pleasure!

GR Hoff: No, I appreciate it, Ryan. I had a great time. And the- you know, thank you for doing everything you do. You know, on the really real- I mean, you're so active in the Facebook group and always improving what you guys are doing over there. So, it is appreciated. It does not go unnoticed.

Ryan Chapman: Thank you.